Western Resistance

Hello giraldus. i know i am replying late but i hope u read my post. i read ur article "Poll Shows Citizens' Views Of Muslims". i just wanted to comment on the verses u chose to select from the quran. the quran is studied in schools and by professors and people who devote their life to understanding the eniter book. you cannont just quote a verse and feel like you understand it. these verses were revealed when the muslims in medinah were at war with the the people in makkah, who so happened to be pagons. you cannont take these verses out of contect. you cannont take any verse out of context in any book. You cannot tell me that 1400 yers ago it was wrong to cut off the head of your enemy on the battlefield. and 1400 years ago you cut off your enemies fingers so they drop the sword, basic medieval warfare. no where in the quran does it say kill anyone because of what they believe in. And what upsets me the most is that u have quoted these verses wrong. sura 8:39 is not Make war upon them until idolatry shall cease. it is Make war upon them until "fitnah" shall cease. fitnah is a word to describe any type of terror or evil. it could be translated Make war upon them until violence shall cease or terror shall cease. by NO MEANS does it say idiolatry shall cease. And furthermore prophet Mohammed (peace and blessings be upon him) did NOT have sex with a nine yr old. He DID NOT marry a nine year old. Ayishah (his wife) was at the least 18-20 yrs old. the timeline of her life proves that. I am sorry to see this type of wrong information, that could cause bad relations between people, in the public. Islam is a religion of peace. In the entier history of islam, Muslims never started any wars. the only type of war muslims premit is self defense. the word Jihad means struggle. Jihad is only vaild when your life your weatlh, family, country, possesions etc are in danger. give me one good reason why people should be less tolerant of islam? all of the wars you see on the news are all provoked. Iraq, Afghanistan, Palesinte, Lebanon, they are all provoked. i finish with this, give me one just one occasions, past or present, that muslims engaged war unprovoked. give me one occasion just one

I do not claim to understand the entire Koran. I doubt if anyone can, as it is contradictory, rambling, badly edited (with later texts placed at the start), and overall incoherent.

You claim that Aisha was 19, and claim her life story backs it up. Let me quote from Bukhari, whose Hadith collection, whittled down from 30,000 to a mere few thousand, is regarded by Sunni Muslims as fully "Sahih" or "authentic".

Bukhari Hadith Vol VII, Book 62, Number 64: "Narrated Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."

and again:

Bukhari Hadith Vol VII, Book 62, Number 65: "Narrated Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)."

and also from Tabari:

Tabari Hadith: IX:131: (Aisha narrated) "My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was then brought in while the Messenger was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. Then the men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old."

I suppose you are a "Quran-only" Muslim, or you appear to be claiming to know more than those who studied the exact chains of transmission of the above Hadiths and placed them in their anthologies.

And while we are on the subject of Aisha, you ask about "unprovoked wars", so how about the Battle of the Camel?

Do you deny that Mohammed himself ordered the slaughter of all the male members of the Banu Qurayzah tribe in Medina, and put their wives and daughters into slavery, merely because of a rumour of a plot?

I may have a different set of principles to you, but "rumours of a plot" do not justify a genocidal crime against humanity.

But the Banu Quraysh were Jews, and I suppose you believe them to be "apes and pigs?"

Giraldus.

You say that Arabic numerical statements are not meant to be what they say they are.

In that case, what else in Arabic is not to be trusted?

If the Hadiths claim that Mohammed had 12 wives, does that mean he had 36?

You have not refuted my entire post at all, I am afraid. You state that the Banu Quraysh were not Jews, they were Pagans. My bad spelling - the Quraysh were pagans, of the same tribe as Mohammed. The Banu Qurayza were the Jews whose menfolk were decapitated. Read Isshaq for the details of the menfolk being beheaded.

And also one woman was killed:

Sunan Abu Dawud:
Book 14, Number 2665:

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:

No woman of Banu Qurayzah was killed except one. She was with me, talking and laughing on her back and belly (extremely), while the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) was killing her people with the swords. Suddenly a man called her name: Where is so-and-so? She said: I I asked: What is the matter with you? She said: I did a new act. She said: The man took her and beheaded her. She said: I will not forget that she was laughing extremely although she knew that she would be killed.

And I never said that the Battle of Camel was started by a rumour. I was responding to your earlier question, where you asked me to give one example of where Muslims went to war "without provocation".

You have proved my original point when you say: "This battle was about Ali, Aisha's step son, wanting to become leader (caliph) and his supporters fought Aisha's supporters."

So where was the "provocation?" None, it was a battle fought by Muslims about gaining POWER and CONTROL.

I don't think you have refuted anything I have said.

And the contradictions in the Koran? "Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful" above the start of every Surah. Does not tally with the invocation:

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. 8:12

If you want to impress people with your Islamic wisdom, this is not the arena for it. And I do not give a flying fuck whether you convert or not. That is your choice.

By taking my time from researching and writing articles for the site - the main purpose of my work, rather than splitting hairs with people who contradict themselves, you are in danger of trying my patience.

This conversation is now closed as far as I am concerned. Respond if you wish, but do not expect me to answer more of your tiresome questions. You think your Quran is great? Prove it, don't expect me to justify a book I despise. The real world, the effect of this evil religion called Islam upon its followers, and how their actions impact upon Western values, is what I am concerned with.

And before you try to waste my time further, I have the power to erase any comment here, and also to block IP addresses.

This two-way conversation is no longer to be two-way.

Thank you.

I have deleted your rude and insulting post - "seekingtruth" as you decided to insult my integrity.

This site is not set up for Muslims to interfere and insult our writers to look good in front of their friends.

There are forums for that.

I warned you I had the power to ban you from making further comments, and I have done so.

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